L E I C E S T E R S H I R E C O N S T A B U L A R Y
RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW Police Exhibit No SVF/106A
Person Interviewed: Jane TANNER Number of Pages 26
Place of Interview: Force Headquarters Enderby Signature of Interviewing
Date of Interview: 08/04/08 Officer producing exhibit
Time Commenced: 1155 hours
Time Concluded: 1240 hours Duration of Interview: 45 minutes
Interviewing Officer(s) DC 4078 FERGUSON Tape Reference nos: SVF/106
Other Persons Present None
00.04 4078 “It is eleven fifty-five and fifty-nine, so it is nearly eleven fifty-six, which it is now.
We are in an interview room at the Force Headquarters of Leicestershire Police and I
am DC FERGUSON from the Leicestershire Major Crime Unit. And you are?”
Reply “Jane Michelle TANNER”.
4078 “Thank you Jane. We have done two discs already on interviews and we have been
working our way through part of what has been a very significant holiday”.
4078 “We have gone from the Saturday when you arrived up until the Wednesday night so
far. And you have just said that you have been racking your brains to see if there is
anything else that you have thought of that we have missed during that time?”
4078 “And you said you can’t think of anything else at the moment?”
Reply “No, I can’t think of anything at the moment”.
4078 “There was just two things I have thought to ask before we move on to the
00.45 4078 “Madeleine, how much of Madeleine did you see?”
Reply “Not that much really because only really because she didn’t come to breakfast, so
we saw the other children at breakfast and their lunch, but because they tended to
have breakfast and lunch separately, the only time I really saw her was at, erm, after
high tea when we were playing in the play area, was the main times that I probably
saw her during the week”.
4078 “And how would you describe Madeleine?”
Reply “Very, she was very lively, a very lively, happy, a happy little girl really. Because,
probably a bit of, we were almost a bit worried how Exxxx and Madeleine would get
on, because Exxxx’s quite shy and sensitive and Madeleine’s very, erm, I don’t know
whether you can call a child vivacious, but, you know, sort of very, erm, outgoing
and. But, I mean, they did, they got on and they had a whale of a time. But, yeah,
very, very lively, chatty, a chatty little girl. I mean, to be honest, I know Madeleine
probably less well than I know Kate and Gerry, because often, with Kate and Gerry,
we saw them, it was like at fortieth birthday parties and that sort of thing. So,
Madeleine herself, I wouldn’t say as, I didn’t know her as a little girl, whereas, you
know, the other children, Millie and the other ones, you know, I saw very regularly”.
4078 “So your impressions of Madeleine is that she is confident, happy?”
Reply “Yeah, very, yeah, you know, very”.
4078 “And is there anything about her that would make her stand out from the rest of the
children in that group?”
Reply “I think just the fact she is very outgoing, you know. As I say, Exxxx, in her nature, is a
bit more, you know, quiet and, erm, a bit more probably reserved. Well, again, I
don’t know whether you’d call a child reserved, but more, you know, not quite so”.
4078 “Hangs back and sees what is going on?”
Reply “Yeah, she’s, yeah, whereas, I think Madeleine would be, she would always be in the
centre, anything that was going on she would be, I don’t mean to say the ring-leader,
but she would be at the centre of it, so”.
02.45 4078 “I don’t want to put words in your mouth and I don’t want to ask inappropriate
Reply “No, just ask”.
4078 “How you described Madeleine, up to what point was she sort of the leader, if you
like, was she verging on the, because some children can be downright annoying”.
4078 “When they’re over confident?”
Reply “No, again, I think this is what I was almost wondering, whether, with Exxxx being sort
of the stand-back type, whether, but, no, she wasn’t like that at all, she was just”.
4078 “In a nice way?”
Reply “Just happy. In a nice way, yeah. No, she wasn’t, erm, she wasn’t a brat, no, I mean,
that’s you could describe, she wasn’t, no, bratty or sort of, I can’t remember the word
I’m trying to look for, precocious”.
Reply “No, she was just very, and she was obviously, you know, they were enjoying
themselves, they were running around screaming, you know, sort of chasing them
round the play area, you know. That’s my main memory of Madeleine from the
holiday, is in the play area, you know, we were sort of chasing them around and, you
know, just being, just running around, quite happy”.
4078 “Just fun?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah”.
4078 “Okay. And you also mentioned that you went for a run. Was that the only one that
you did, I know I asked, but I can’t”.
Reply “Yes, I think it was, yeah”.
03.51 4078 “And what about the rest of the group, were you aware of them going running?”
Reply “Erm, I know Kate and Gerry, I think they did a run together on the day that I did a
run, because I think I saw them and I thought ‘Oh God, I better go’, because I was
supposed to be training and I thought ‘Oh I’d better’, it sort of guilted me into going
for a run anyway, so. And Fiona often went for, I think she did a few, she did a few
runs. Erm, and Matt and Rachael do run, so I would imagine they probably did. Me
and Russell are the lazy ones really out of all, the rest of them are all very sporty”.
4078 “None of you sound lazy”.
Reply “But, no, they”.
4078 “I am worn out just thinking about it”.
Reply “But, no, they tended to, so I would imagine, I think Matt would have definitely have
gone. I can remember Matt going for a run actually. I think Russell was probably
the only one that didn’t at all probably during the holiday and Fi’s mum”.
4078 “Oh I know, that is Dianne, isn’t it?”
Reply “Dianne, yeah”.
4078 “Yeah, I think I will be speaking to Dianne at the end of the week”.
Reply “Oh right, yeah”.
4078 “Okay. Well I am ready to move onto Thursday, are you?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah”.
4078 “Let’s just go through what you can remember then”.
4078 “Also there is going to be a lot of questions arising”.
4078 “And things”.
Reply “That’s fine, yeah”,
05.06 4078 “So rather than me asking and prompting you through the day, you just tell me
straight off, if you can try and, as much as you can”.
4078 “Try and get yourself back there and go through the motions that you went through
on that Thursday”.
4078 “And see how you get on”.
Reply “Okay. Erm, that morning I didn’t go for breakfast at Millennium, I think we’d been
a bit later the night before, so we just thought, ‘Oh let’s just’, we just stayed in bed a
bit longer. We didn’t, so I didn’t, like I say, I didn’t go, I just went straight to the,
straight to the tennis lesson. So I think Russell took, Russell took Exxxx and Exx up to
the Millennium with, erm, I think he went with Matt. Again, I’m not sure, but I think
he went up with Matt and G***e up to the Millennium, and Rachael and I went to
play tennis. So I think that was the only morning I probably didn’t go, didn’t go for
breakfast, was the Thursday. So then we had our, we had the tennis lesson as normal
in the morning. I think Exx, no, Exx definitely didn’t go to the Kids Club that
morning. So I think Russell went for breakfast, took the kids for breakfast at the
MILLENIUM, then walked down, dropped Exxxx off at her Kids Club and then
brought Exx back to watch us playing tennis, no. No, I got that wrong, sorry, doh, I
got it wrong actually. So that, you know how I said on the Wednesday we had been
watching them having their tennis lesson and we spoke to the chap, it wasn’t the
person that said ‘Isn’t it bad that you video’. Exxxx, so, hang on, let’s go back. I’m
just getting myself all. On the Wednesday me, Rachael and Kate watched Exxxx and
Madeleine having their tennis lesson”.
Reply “But then on the Thursday another group of children came down for their tennis
lesson and that’s when Russell and this other person was there with the video camera.
Because just going backwards, I’m thinking Russell dropped Exxxx off and then came
to watch us finishing our tennis lesson with Exx, because Exx didn’t go to the Kids
Club. And after our tennis lesson that day another group of children came down for
their tennis lesson, so”.
07.19 4078 “Not Madeleine?”
Reply “Not Madeleine and Exxxx, no, another group. And we sort of just watched them
starting and that’s when the conversation with this other person with the video
camera, because he was taking pictures of his daughter”.
4078 “Are you sure that it was his daughter?”
Reply “I’m absolutely. It definitely was his daughter, yes, yeah”.
4078 “So it was not sort of a stranger we have got with a video camera?”
Reply “No, no, I think he was actually on our flight out, so we had actually spoken to him
during the week. So, no, he was definitely, he was definitely a guest who had his
daughter there. But, yeah, I got that wrong. And that makes more sense because I
was thinking the day before I would have gone off to play, to do the same, whereas
that day, after the tennis lesson, I didn’t do any other activity, for want of, yeah, so.
Does that make sense?”
4078 “Yeah, it does, but just to clarify though, that on the Wednesday, when you saw
Madeleine and Exxxx had her tennis lesson, do you remember if Russell was there
Reply “I don’t remember if he was there, but I don’t’ think so”.
4078 “But on the Thursday he was there”.
Reply “He was definitely there”.
4078 “Watching Madeleine and Exxxx”.
Reply “It was the other, it was other part of the, it was the same age group but it was the
other half of the group that were having their tennis lesson”.
8.19 4078 “Okay”.
Reply “No, I thought when I was saying that, that it didn’t sound quite fright, so, yeah”.
Reply “So, yeah, so we had, erm, the tennis lesson finished, so I’ve had that conversation
about ‘Isn’t it awful you can’t watch your daughter’, blah, blah, blah, ‘You can’t film
your own daughter’. And then we walked down to the beach with Exx. So I think,
erm, I think we walked down, no, Dave and Fi were already down there and, no, we
met. Hang on. Sorry, I’m just trying to think.
4078 “There is no problem, just in your own time. Was this your first beach visit by the
Reply “It was with the children, yeah, with Exx, yeah. And, again, that sounds odd, but
we’d just moved to Devon, so I think we’d been to the beach quite a lot, so normally
when, if we’d gone on holiday we’d have been like straight to the beach, but because
we’d, because we were by the beach”.
4078 “Not so much”.
Reply “Yeah, I don’t think we’d sort of, we hadn’t sort of thought of going before. Erm,
you know, walking down to the beach, so Russell, me and Exx walked down to the
beach. I don’t know, I don’t know what Kate did then (inaudible) but I don’t know
where Kate went at that point, but she didn’t come to the beach with us. Erm, we, I
think we met Dave and Fi coming back, because they’d had their second, I think
they’d had their second sailing lesson, erm, which Russell should have gone to but he
didn’t because of looking after Exx, because I’d paid for the tennis lesson but he
hadn’t paid for the sailing lesson we thought I’d do the tennis lesson”.
4078 “Because it was paid?”
Reply “Yeah, erm, I think we met Dave and Fi coming back and they said they’d seen
Madeleine and Exxxx on a boat, because they’d taken the kids sailing that morning, so
they said ‘Oh we’ve seen Madeleine and Exxxx on a boat down there’. So then we
went down to the beach, erm, and Russell took out a kayak and I sat and just played
on the beach with Exx at that point. And we saw, erm, they’d come off the boat and
we saw Exxxx and Madeleine and the rest of the group, they were just, erm, they’d just
come off the boat and they were getting ready to walk back up to the, erm, tut, the
Kids Club, so”.
10.30 4078 “What was the weather like at that time when you remember seeing Madeleine on the
Reply “Erm, I think that day was a bit nicer actually. I think, I’m trying to, I’ve got pictures
of Exxxx, of Exx, that’s about the first day I took pictures actually, and I’ve got
pictures of Exx and I’m trying to remember what she was wearing. It was a tee-shirt,
so I don’t think it was, it wasn’t as, I think it was actually getting a bit nicer, it wasn’t
as cold. No, yeah, because the Thursday was actually probably one of the first nice
days, which is why I think we had gone later in the day, we took all the kids down to
the beach because it was actually nicer weather. So, yeah, the Thursday was
probably the first day I think the sun had more come out in the day”.
4078 “When you were there with Exx and you had seen Madeleine and Exxxx sort of getting
ready to go back to the Kids Club, were there many other people around?”
Reply “Erm, not many, erm, phew, you know, I mean, I can remember sitting in a big space,
you know, you weren’t like jammed in, there was a big space before any of the
others. And, again, I’ve racked my brains to think if I could if there was anybody
there that was, and I can’t think of any, noticing anybody, noticing anybody odd at
that point. Erm, there was mainly just, as I say, there was the kids there and there
was the people that run the activities on the beach. But, erm, you know, there were
other people but nothing, you know, nobody, nobody that stood out completely”.
4078 “Okay. Go on then”.
Reply “Yeah, so erm, so, yeah, Russ took the, took the kayak out for a bit and then came
back and then we just sat, I think we just stayed then on the beach and waited to,
because Exxxx, and then waited ‘til sort of half twelve to go and pick Exxxx up for lunch,
erm. So we walked back via the Kids Club and then back up for lunch. And I think
that day was the day we had lunch in our apartment with just Matt and Rachael and
not Dave and Fi. I think, I think because they’d done the sailing early, I think they
might have picked up their kids a bit earlier and given them lunch, you know,
beforehand. I can’t remember why we didn’t, but it was just the four of us and the
kids there that day. Erm, so, yeah, we just went back and had lunch in the apartment.
And then G***e and Exx, took them to have a, have a nap. And I think probably
before Exxxx went back, Rachael and I just went to have a knock on the tennis court.
So, I mean, I don’t know what time that would have been, probably, I’m trying to
think what time the Kids Club started in the afternoon, I think it’s half two, but I
mean, you’ll know that, I think it was half two, so probably about half one, erm,
Rachael and I just went down to, you know, the court was free so we thought ‘Oh
we’ll go and have a bit of a knock’ at that point. Erm, so Russ took back, took Exxxx
back to the Kids Club and Matt listened for Exx while Russ took Exxxx. Matt, Matt
sort of was listening for Exx and G***e while Russ took Exxxx back to the, back to the
13.41 4078 “Right”.
Reply “Erm, and I think we played ‘til about, phew, half two, because I think, I’m not sure
if this is going to be another question that you are going to ask, but I think that was
the last time that I saw Madeleine, because Kate and Gerry brought the kids, all the
kids down to the play area to, they would have their lunch before they took them
back to the Kids Club, and I think that was about two, quarter past two’ish, and I can
remember Madeleine shouting things to us on the tennis court, you know, and I can
remember Gerry sort of going ‘Oh good shot’ or whatever. And I think that would
have been the last time that I personally, you know, I personally saw Madeleine.
Erm, and I think they then left, I say times, I’m not sure, but I know, I think it was
probably, the Kids Club had already gone back in, because I could hear, the Kids
Club was right by the court, so, and I can remember thinking ‘Oh they’ve not gone
straight back in’. Then they took the twins up to the Kids Club and I presume
Madeleine back to the, to the other one, because then Kate and Gerry, I think we saw
them, I can’t remember for exactly, but I think we saw them when we come back,
because they’d booked a, erm, a private tennis lesson, just the two of them, that
afternoon, and I think, I don’t, I can’t remember whether we saw them coming back
before me and Rachael finished or whether we saw them doing that when we then
went down to the beach, but I remember seeing Kate and Gerry coming back to have
their, have their private tennis lesson. So anyway me and Rachael probably knocked
up for about any hour maybe or probably a bit less than an hour, then went back and
then, then Matt and Russ, when we got back, Matt and Russ went down to the beach
and I think they took a boat out, erm, Matt fell off the boat and nearly lost Matt off
the side of the boat and we thought that would be the drama of the day, but. So,
yeah, then they went down to their and then we’d arranged to actually take all the
kids down to the beach with Dave and Fi and Dianne that afternoon, so then when
Exx and G***e woke up, we all well followed and all went down to the beach as a
group, but not with, but Kate and Gerry didn’t come then because they’d booked this
private, you know, this private lesson”.
16.17 4078 “So it was Fiona and David?”
4078 “And Dianne?”
Reply “Dianne, yeah”.
4078 “And G***e?”
4078 “Sorry, L***, Scarlet”.
Reply “L***, Scarlet and G***e”.
4078 “It’s like a test for me trying to remember”.
Reply I know it is, yeah”.
4078 “I am missing a couple. Rachael and Matthew, they were there too?”
Reply “Rachael was. Matt, Matthew had gone down with Russell, so they were already on
the beach, they were, as I say, they were trying to drown each other on the boat at this
point, so they were already down there”.
16.45 4078 “So everybody was there apart from Gerry and Kate and Madeleine and the twins?”
Reply “And Exxxx. Exxxx was still in the Kids Club at this point as well”.
Reply “Like I say, yeah, everybody apart from those”.
4078 “What time of day was that by that point, roughly?”
Reply “Erm, I think it was about three’ish, three thirty, probably by, it might even have
been later by the time we’d got ourselves, I’d say three thirty-four”.
Reply “By the time we’d got everybody, trying to get Dave and Fi anywhere is like trying to
organise an Army, so I imagined it probably went a bit”.
4078 “Why is that?”
Reply “Erm, they’re just always late”.
4078 “Whose fault is it?”
Reply “They’re just always late and faffing, I think Dave’s a faffer so it’s normally, so,
yeah, I think, erm, it was probably three thirty, four”.
Reply “Ish. Erm, so, yeah, we went down to the beach and we were probably on the beach
for an hour. Matt and Russ came out from their sailing and started telling us, you
know, about their, how Matt had fallen off the side and he’d had to go back and get
him, et cetera. Erm, I think, actually, at this, I think Dave, sorry David, might have
been down there as well, he might not have come down with us, he might have
already been down there as well but he joined us. I can’t, I think he was, yeah, I
think he was out on the water as well, so he wouldn’t have walked down with us, we
met him there as well”.
18.17 4078 “He was on the beach with you?”
Reply “He was on the beach, yeah. Erm, so, yeah, we played with the kids for probably
about an hour and a half on the beach. And then Russell went to get, pick Exxxx up
from the Kids Club and he brought her back down, back down to the beach”.
4078 “Was that the normal time that they finished?”
Reply “Erm, I think it was about five. It would have been before, because they used to walk
them up for tea, so because we were going to give them all tea on the beach we
didn’t, we made sure it was before they left, but it would have probably have been
about, just before five I think”.
4078 “And how long did it take you to go from the beach to the Kids Club?”
Reply “Erm, phew, five minutes”.
4078 “Not long at all?”
Reply “No, it was up a hill. Yeah, probably four or five minutes”.
4078 “Okay. Go on then. So Russell goes back to fetch Exxxx?”
Reply “Yeah, and then I remember him coming back down, erm, to the beach. I think she
was on his shoulders. I don’t know why I remember that, but I remember him”.
4078 “Well that is good, if you have got a mental image”.
Reply “Yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m thinking, yeah. So, yeah, he came back down and I
think we were still on the beach at that point, I don’t think we’d gone to the café, I
think when he came back we were still on the beach. And then we walked up to, I
think it’s Café Paris, Parisio or something, it’s the café that’s on the front, and we just
had, had some drinks there and gave the kids some tea, so we got them some tea,
because obviously they weren’t having it in the, the Kids, they didn’t have the
provided tea that night. Erm, I had an orange juice, I didn’t even have a beer, I
remember that, because I thought ‘Oh shall I have a beer’ and I thought ‘Oh no, I’ll
have an orange juice’. I don’t know why I remember that either but”.
4078 “Obviously a conscious decision”.
Reply “It was a conscious, yeah. I think normally I probably would have at that time of day
thought ‘It’s time for a beer’. But, no, I had an orange juice and we fed the kids and
then they played in front of the, erm, tut, in front of the restaurant there was like a
slide and swings and they were playing on there”.
20.16 4078 “Is that actually on the beach then?”
Reply “Yeah, more or less, yeah, it’s sort of right on the edge and then it goes onto the
beach, so the swings are actually on the beach, a bit of it. Erm, I’m trying to think
what else, what we did when we were in the restaurant. I can’t remember. There was
some lobsters in a, tut, a tank. And the group Exxxx and Madeleine was in was called
LOBSTER, so I can remember going, like lobsters”.
4078 “Right (inaudible)”.
Reply “A key piece, it’s a key piece of information there, sorry. And then, I think, yeah, I
gave the kids some food and they had an ice cream. And then I think, it was every
night, yeah, every night there was social tennis actually, so that’s probably what
happened after tea on most nights, we’d go and do an hour of tennis and sort of mix
and match between us all, so the kids would be playing in the, erm, the play area,
and, you know, we’d sort of like, somebody will stay and play with the kids and then
we’d swap in and out if it was. But like they had, one night they had a ladies’ night,
but Thursday night was actually the men’s night of tennis and I think somebody,
basically made, tried to make ourselves as awkward as possible on this holiday, I
think, because somebody had asked, because there weren’t many people there and
most of the people playing tennis were in our group except a few others, they sort of
said ‘Oh could it be just slightly’, it was either slightly earlier or slightly later, so I
think it was actually, I think normally it started at half six but we’d asked ‘Could the
social tennis start at six’, so that they then gave us time to get the kids into bed
Reply “Does that make sense?”
21.56 4078 “Yeah”.
Reply “Erm, so I can remember saying to Russell and Matt and everything, it was about
quarter past six, I said ‘Oh you’ve got to go to the men’s night tennis because they’ve
changed the times for us and now you’re not blo*dy going’, you know, that sort of, it
was that sort of thing. So I think at about quarter past six they, they all went up to,
erm, to the men’s tennis”.
4078 “Had Kate and Gerry joined you at that time?”
Reply “No, they didn’t come down to the beach at all because they’d had their, erm, they’d
had their private tennis lesson or whatever it was, so it was quite late in the day, so
4078 “You hadn’t seen them at all then, that afternoon?”
Reply “Only, I’d seen them about half, well about two, between two and half two”.
4078 “And the tennis?”
Reply “Yeah, and I saw them, as I say, I can’t remember whether it was then that they had
their tennis lesson, so I can’t remember whether I saw them when me and Rachael
went back to the room or whether it was when we took all the kids down to the
beach, we saw them playing tennis, but we’d seen them then. And also I saw, we
saw Kate running when we were at the Café Parisio or whatever it was, Kate was
running along, we saw Kate running along the beach, so she’d obviously gone for a
run. Actually I think that was before, I think that’s, yeah, that’s when we were still
on the beach, so it was before we’d gone to the café that we saw Kate running”.
4078 “Right. So it was before teatime?”
Reply “Before, yeah. So it would have probably been before five, it would have been sort
of, either before, definitely before half past five I would have said we’d seen her,
4078 “And she was on her own?”
Reply “She was on her own, yeah. Erm, so, yeah, the, sorry, Russell, Matt and Dave went
up to, back up to the complex, for want of a better word, to play tennis, because we
sort of said ‘Well’”.
23.43 4078 “You’ve got to?”
Reply “’You’ve got to because’. I think Russell and I are probably more sort of laid back
and just go with the flow a bit, but some of the people on the holiday were quite sort
of ‘Oh we’ll ask, we’ll get this’, you know, a bit like booking the Tapas Restaurant
every night, I don’t think it would ever have crossed Russell and my mind to try and
get a block booking, but, erm, you know, I think they sort of”.
4078 “Once somebody has you feel obliged to go along with it?”
Reply “Well, I think, yeah, I mean, and we actually did have a conversation, it’s one of
those ‘What ifs’ as well, I can remember on the morning of the, Thursday morning by
the tennis, at the tennis, somebody in our tennis group had tried to book the Tapas
and they couldn’t get in because it was already full. And I can remember thinking at
that point, and I just felt, you know, ‘Good’, because they were bloomin’ awkward by
booking it out. And they were sort of saying well it’s a bit ridiculous that they
couldn’t have got in because they’d booked, they’d tried to book in, you know,
they’d been there at nine o’clock to book in and they still couldn’t get in. So, we did,
at that point, I can remember having this conversation was ‘Oh shall we go
somewhere different’, but it never happened, but. And Kate was, I think Kate was
there then, I can’t remember who else, but we did actually say ‘Oh shall we, shall we
go somewhere different’. And I think almost at that point we had considered it, but I
think the problem was the kids were so tired after having such full days, I think it was
more ‘Well it’s worked every other night’. But I know definitely from my point of
view I felt quite bad that we were taking this, you know, this block booking every
night and it was affecting other people using it”.
4078 “What were the other options then for eating, was there a good option close by?”
Reply “No, it was just the Millennium, well in terms of ones that you wouldn’t have to pay
extra for, it was the Millennium, which didn’t really start until, I think it was half
seven or something, so, you know, by that stage it was, we could have, we could have
gone there, so I think. And our kids are probably more, I don’t know, (inaudible) our
kids as they are growing up, but we tend to drag our kids with us more, you know,
they have never really had a certain bedtime as such, I think”.
25.44 4078 “So they adapted more?”
Reply “They adapt, they’re more adaptable, yeah. But I think, I normally would have
pushed that, but I think because Exxxx had had the complete, the night before, because
she was so tired, so completely lost the plot, we thought ‘She’s tired, lets just, you
know, stick with it as it is really’”.
4078 “And the holiday was all inclusive?”
4078 “Does the Tapas come under that bracket?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s did, yeah”.
Reply “Erm, so what was I saying, sorry, I got side tracked there. I was, so we’d come back
for the tennis, yeah, we’d sent them back to the tennis”.
4078 “That’s right”.
Reply “Because we thought ‘It’s not fair that they’ve’”.
4078 “That’s where we were, yeah”.
4078 “I’m struggling to remember as well”.
Reply “Yeah, it’s not fair that they’ve changed the time for us and then they don’t go. So
they went back up at that point and then we followed up probably about quarter of an
hour later with all the kids and we went to the play area by the tennis courts and had
a, you know, we probably stayed there for about half an hour or so. At that point, I’m
not, I can’t say how long that was, about half an hour”.
4078 “Were Madeleine and the”.
Reply “No, they weren’t there. No, they weren’t there. Yeah, they’d most, but Gerry was
there, he was playing, he was playing tennis”.
26.56 4078 “Right”.
Reply “Yeah. Erm, so, yeah, we stayed there for a bit and then took the children back and
got them, you know, bathed and blah blah and got them ready for bed, but that was
probably, by that stage that was probably, erm, half seven’ish probably I’d say, by the
time we, we went back, if not maybe even a bit later, I’m not sure, but around then,
around the seven o’clock mark”.
4078 “Nothing different to the rest of the holiday really?”
Reply “No, no, no, just, erm, yeah, it was the same, we’d done that almost every night. I
think, I think both of them had a bit of a screaming fit that night, because I can
remember them being quite bad when they got into bed, because I think they just lost
it. And also I think Exxxx was, because Russell was still playing tennis she was like
‘Where’s daddy, why is he not putting me to bed’, so there was a bit of that as well.
But I can remember them being, being a bit, err, it was tiredness, they were doing so
much in the day that they did kick off a bit when we got back to the room, but. Erm,
so, yeah, I think Russell came back, I think they were supposed to finish at half seven
and it was around, I think they had a bit of, but it went on a bit longer, so they were
probably back about, he was probably back about quarter to eight. And then put the,
and they weren’t, Exxxx and Exx weren’t in bed at that point, erm, I think they, it was
probably about quarter past eight by the time we actually put them, them in, them
into bed. And then I went down to the restaurant just after half eight. There’s
another, another thing that I was feeling bad about was, erm, we’d got this block
booking for half past eight, but because Dave and Fi are so rubbish at getting
anywhere, again they’re always late, it was edging back every night, so we were sort
of getting to the place of sort of quarter to nine, nine o’clock, when everybody was
getting there and, as I said earlier, a lot of people were going earlier, you know,
earlier in the evening, so I was very conscious we were sort of keeping all the waiters
there late, you know, not later, but later than they probably would, would normally be
there, so. So I think by that stage we knew what the menu was, so I’d got Russell’s
order but he stayed, because the children had only been asleep for quarter of an hour,
he stayed back in the room for a bit longer, just to check that they were definitely
asleep before, before he came, came to join, you know, everybody else”.
29.20 4078 “Yeah”.
Reply “So, yeah, I think I went down about, it was just after half eight, so probably twentyfive
to nine’ish, I’m not, but it was, it was quite close to half eight because, as I say, I
was very conscious that we were all being so late all the time and it was getting later
4078 “And who was there when you got there?”
Reply “Kate and Gerry were there already and they were talking to, I don’t know their
names, but they were talking to the two people that Gerry played tennis with in, erm,
in his group, who were sitting in the restaurant”.
4078 “I haven’t seen a photograph of the inside of the Tapas Bar”.
4078 “Could you just briefly describe as you go, is there only one door, is it a kind of
Reply “It’s open more or less, yeah, so”.
4078 “Just give me some idea of what it looks like?”
Reply “Yeah, so as you walk, so you walk in past, yeah, it is past the pool, and there was
sort of a tarpaulin bit, I’m going to go this way because I can’t”.
4078 “Visualise it, left and right (inaudible)”.
Reply “Yeah, so the tarpaulin is here and you’ve got the tables here and then it’s all open
from that side, so, and the big table for us in sort of the middle, they’d put a table
there and then there was some more tables down the side by the tarpaulin. And I
think our table had moved slightly that way because, as I said, the other nights I’d
had the monitor behind me on sort of the ledge where the tarpaulin was, I think there
was actually a table between us and the tarpaulin this night, so I think we’d actually
gone a bit. I can’t remember, I was talking to Russell about this last night and he
couldn’t remember, but I’m sure, purely because of the fact I’d been putting the
monitor there, so it was actually, it was only that much nearer, but that made the
difference, so, erm”.
31.05 4078 “Was it a table specifically for a large group or had they sort of mackled together a
group of tables?”
Reply “Erm, I think they’d put some together, but it was round, it was just one big round, a
big round one. I can’t remember to be honest. But, I mean, I think the first time we’d
gone there we’d had the thing we’d had with the Millennium the first night, you
know, we was all trying to put tables together, so now they knew we were coming we
had a, we had the, erm, you know, the big table there waiting”.
4078 “You say when you got there Gerry and Kate were talking to another couple from
4078 “Do you remember where they were sitting?”
Reply “The other couple?”
4078 “All four of them”.
Reply “Erm, Kate and Gerry were standing up, so they hadn’t sat down at this point, they
were standing. So this was say our table, this other couple were here, I think, and
Kate and Gerry were standing here, talking to them”.
Reply “Erm, so, yeah, I’d got down and I think then, soon after I’d got down we sat down at
our table, not our table, but, yeah, sat down on our table. Then, I’m trying to think
who came next. I think next it was, erm, Matt and Rachael I think came next, yeah,
Matt and Rachael came down next together, the two of them, probably a few minutes
after, after me, I don’t think it was that long, that long after me. And then Russell
came down, probably about quarter to’ish, I think it was, probably sort of five or ten
minutes after, after me. And then it was getting quite late again and Dave, Fi and
Dianne were nowhere to be seen, so Matt actually, I think it had got to the point when
it was like ‘Oh Matt go and’ and Matt said he’d go back and chivvy them along. I
think Fi had actually been for a run which is why it had taken, why she was, they
were taking longer. Erm, yeah, so Matt went back, erm, but he actually met them
coming down. But I think because he was up he thought while he was up he’d go
and have a listen just to check, you know, there was no noise from G***e. I think he
must have actually been a bit longer, I think we’d actually been there for about
quarter of an hour before Dave and Fi, you know, all of us had been there for about
ten or fifteen minutes before they actually appeared, so”.
33.30 4078 “So you got there then, Rachael and Matt have arrived?”
4078 “Then Russell came?”
Reply “Then Russell”.
4078 “And then after Matt had gone up to chase David and Fiona they arrived anyway?”
Reply “Yeah, they all arrived, yeah”.
4078 “Can you picture who was sitting where on the table?”
Reply “Erm, I was sitting next to Kate on one side and I think it was Rachael, I think it was
Rachael the other side. Erm, yeah, I think it was, erm, so it was Kate, me, Rachael
and then I think, erm, I’m trying to think where everybody else was. Erm, I think
Dianne was next to Rachael, here. I really can’t, I can’t really, I can’t picture exactly,
but I know, I know I was next to Kate, that’s in my head, and I think it was Rachael
the other side, the other side of me. And I think Russell might have been the other
side of Kate or Matt was next”.
4078 “Who or what were you facing?”
Reply “I was facing the, erm, I was almost facing the bar area, so I was sort of, yeah, I had
my, to where the apartments was, I was sort of perpendicular”.
34.54 4078 “Right”.
Reply “Is that the right word, perpendicular?”
Reply “At right angles to it”.
4078 “Yeah, it is really difficult when you haven’t been somewhere”.
4078 “To picture it. But unfortunately they won’t pay for me to go on holiday, so I’ll just
have to try and imagine what I can”.
Reply “Do you want me to show you?”
4078 “Yes please”.
Reply “Erm, yeah, so I was sort of, if you think of that as, you see that bit, if you think of
that as a round table, I was sort of here”.
Reply “And I think Kate was that side and Rachael that side I think”.
4078 “So you were sort of further away from your partners, would that be right?”
4078 “Can I give you a piece of paper?”
Reply “Yeah, erm, so here’s the”.
4078 “The only relevance is it is so that we can see where you are coming from when you
describe the evening”.
Reply “Yeah, erm, so there’s the apartments”.
Reply “Here’s the road. It’s not to scale at all. So as you come in you’ve got the pool here
and you’ve got a bit of, there still is a bit of tarpaulin there, this bit’s much further
than it looks. Erm, so I think there was tables along here and then we were sort of
here, whereas I think other nights we’d been here because, as I said, I was putting the
thing on the, the what’s it, there. And I think the people Kate and Gerry were talking
to were on that table there. I think I was about here and Kate and Rachael. I think
Gerry was over here somewhere, because I know when the three of us sat down we
sort of said ‘We’ll sit’ and I think Gerry sort of said ‘I’ll sit over here’, so it’s not,
erm, I think, I don’t know why but. Erm, I think Dianne was over here somewhere. I
think Russ was over here, I think Matt and Russ were there actually. Fi might have
been there and Dave there. So that’s Dianne. But I’m not a hundred percent on this,
but that’s, but, yeah, I definitely know I was over this side”.
37.57 4078 “Well if that changes as you go through it if you could just let me know”.
4078 “We will call that JT1 if you don’t mind”.
4078 “Yes, a TANNER original. Right, so where were we. Everyone has finally come
together at the table?”
4078 “And you were quite anxious about the time because you didn’t want to be putting
Reply “Yeah, yeah, it seemed like we were getting later and later every night we were
4078 “And you have already said that everyone was getting on well, there was no friction
or anything within the group?”
Reply “Uh hu”.
4078 “By that stage has anything changed?”
Reply “No, not at all, no. As I say, at this stage, this is when everybody was sat down and
everybody was saying how well it had all worked. This was the night when we were
all saying that, so, no, there was nothing. And we’d had a really, I think in some
ways it had been the nicest day because the weather had been nicer, we’d all had the
chance, you know, we’d taken the kids to the beach, we were all saying, you know, it
was probably, it’s ironic, but it had been the best day of the holiday so far because,
you know, we’d been able to do something with the kids and blah blah, so”.
39.05 4078 “And you said the day before that Exxxx had been really tired?”
4078 “And they were both tired that evening?”
4078 “Did the other couples discuss any of their children, anything worthy of comment?”
Reply “Erm, no, I don’t think so. I think, I think Kate and Gerry might have said theirs
were tired too because normally they, as I say, normally they would have probably
still, when we’d all been, after tea, but they’d actually probably gone to bed a bit
earlier than normal I think. I think when I’d said to Kate about Exxxx having a
complete flip, I think, you know, she sort of said ‘Oh yeah, they were, they were
tired’, but nothing. I mean, again, I could be just making that up, to be honest. But I
think everybody was saying their children were tired, you know, because of having
such full days, you know, I mean, they were sailing and doing all these things that
they don’t normally do, so they were they were tried”.
4078 “And up until that point was everybody happy with the child care checks that”.
4078 “The checks on the children?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think this night it was probably, we did checks more
regularly early on than, than probably other, you know, or there seemed to be less
time between checks. And I think that’s because they were bringing the food a lot
quicker because we were late, I think they were like ‘Right, lets get the food out so
we can get’, not get rid of them, but. So we were sort of, because I think when I went
back to do the check it was probably less time after Russell had come than normal,
you know, it wasn’t the strict half an hour, but I think it was because the food was
coming and also I think with Exx not being quite, quite right, you know, we were
making more, more checks. And thinking about it now, looking at this, I was
probably less confident in the monitor, by the position of the table, I mean, it was
only a short bit but, than other nights”.
40.58 4078 “Did anybody else amongst the group mention that they wanted to do checks more
Reply “No, not, no, no, I don’t think. No, I think they were more staggered, because other
nights I think we’d all got there more or less at the same time or not over such a, but
this night, because we’d all got there at such, erm, different times, you know, it was
more, I think that’s why they were sort of probably a bit more staggered and at
different, you know, not all going together at one particular time to do the check”.
4078 “More of a rolling check really?”
Reply “Yeah, it was more of a, yeah”.
4078 “Right. And you have already that Matt had gone off to chase up David and Fiona?”
4078 “But then subsequently you think he must have gone and done the check?”
Reply “Well he did, he met them coming down the road, so he thought, because he was up,
he just literally went and listened. I know he listened at our window. And I don’t
know whether he went in to see G***e, but I know he listened at G***e. And I don’t
know whether he listened at Madeleine’s window at that point, but”.
4078 “Okay. So from what you do know, from your perspective, I take it it was much the
same as the rest of the evenings, everyone was in good spirits?”
Reply “There was nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest, you know, we were just talking,
you know, normally. As I say, as I say, we were actually, I specifically remember
saying ‘It’s been the best day of the holiday so far’, you know, there was no bad
feeling between anybody or anything”.
42.26 4078 “By that time you had got to know Kate a bit more so you felt even more
Reply “Yeah, yeah, we were chatty, yeah, so”.
4078 “What about the rest of the restaurant, you have already said that there was a couple
there that Kate and Gerry played tennis with?”
4078 “Who else was around?”
Reply “Erm, I think it was, I think there was a, there was one man there that was there with
his three children on his own, I don’t know whether he was divorced or whether.
Erm, and I think Gerry might have been on that table, that he, they actually asked, the
two people that came, Gerry had spoken to originally, actually asked him to join them
at some point. I think they were like, this was the thing, they were almost on like
their coffee by the time we got there, so I think, you know, he joined them for coffee,
because his kids were playing in the play area, they were a bit older, his kids, they
were sort of in their teens, well early teens”.
Reply “So there was, erm, yeah, there was them and they all, they joined together. Erm, I
think there was somebody on, there was another table back here and I think there
might have been somebody on there but I can’t remember any, any details about
them. And then there were some people who had got sort of the, not great drawings,
but you’ve got the bar area here which was enclosed and there were some tables in
4078 “Can you just write ‘bar area’ on that because I’ll forget”.
Reply “Yeah, and there were some people inside because it was quite chilly by, by this, it
was actually quite, quite cold”.
43.56 4078 “Okay. Do you want to go on now?”
Reply “Yeah, that’s fine, yeah”.
4078 “What time is it? It’s twenty to one. Or do you want to stop for lunch?”
4078 “Because obviously the next part we’ll go into is the key”.
Reply “Yeah, yeah”.
4078 “So shall we stop you there?”
Reply “Yeah, that’s fine, yeah”.
4078 “What I’m saying is it’s lunchtime”.
4078 “No, but, you know, it is going to be quite intense the next one”.
Reply “No, that’s fine, yeah. Yeah, definitely”.
4078 “Okay, it is twelve forty and we will stop this bit”.
SM J TANNER 08.04.08
Justice has prevailed. From the bottom of our hearts, thank you to all who have made this possible.